Jake Johnson's 'Self Reliance' Shows the Impact of Reality TV on Society

"If the business is gone and the dream is over, [Self Reliance] was the movie I wanted to make."

Now that we're years into reality television being a mainstay, the question begs to be asked, what impact has it had on society? That's a question Jake Johnson sets out to answer in his new film Self Reliance (Hulu). Johnson, who wrote and directed the film, also stars as Tommy, a man who gets embroiled in a life-or-death reality game show. "It is a glimpse inside my head, inside a feeling, a tone. I wanted to make something that felt like you went [on] a ride. And sometimes the ride is scary and sometimes it's funny." Johnson, a fan of reality TV, says you can see the impact it's had in the work of creatives like him. "When stories turn quicker, and characters are more manic and the story is at the pace of reality TV, then it's been affected, and I am part of the group." But no matter if you're a fan of reality TV or not, the film ultimately is a statement on life. "When you watch the movie, even if you're stoned off your a** and you're not a movie person or you're a reality person, you're gonna see some beauty in a great way."

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Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.

Where did the idea for Self Reliance come from?

The idea first came years ago from Japanese reality shows. So Japanese reality shows were pushing the line before we were, they were doing stuff that was very uncomfortable, yet very funny. Like there was one where they put a comedian in an apartment, they took away all his clothes, he had no idea what he was getting into. And then there was no food and there was nothing in the apartment. At first he was being really funny and goofy and the audience was laughing. But then he got hungry and he realized that the only way he could eat is if he won it from a call-in radio show. And so as he was panicking and starving and freaking out, the audience was laughing and having fun. And that kind of turn I feel like we're getting there in our culture, more and more things like Squid Games. When that came out, I'd already been deep into my movie, but when I saw it, I was like, we are pushing closer and closer into reality where 10 people move in a house, the winner gets $100 million, one dies. There's gonna be some streamer now that there's not regulation that's going to try it. And everybody's gonna tune in. And I was like, I felt that was coming years ago. What's really sick is I can't judge it, because f*** it, I will tune in. I mean, I'm the problem.

It makes me think of a reality show called Playing It Straight from 2004, where the entire objective was to find the one straight guy in a house full of gay guys. Like what were we thinking?

And so wrong. So I got really into the MTV show The Challenge, especially when it was first forming. And part of what I loved about it is it was very clear that these guys were doing cocaine. And it was very clear that right off-camera, you could tell throughout the season they were getting skinnier and stronger and more belligerent. So you would always see production gives them free alcohol, they get their f****** sh**** crafty food that everybody's sick of. They're ripping through steroids. They're ripping through cocaine and they're ripping through alcohol. They're putting dynamite together and they're lighting a fire, it's going to explode. And then when they would explode, they would go like, "Okay, now you gotta leave." And I'm like, you're setting up situations for people to react. And as a viewer, I really liked it. It's a guilty like. It's the kind of like that I watch, and very rarely would tell people, and then very slowly, somebody else would admit that they liked something, too. And they become your best friend. And I would go like, what am I watching? Whatever HBO is telling me, prestige TV is where I'm at. And deep down, I'll be like, I don't know all the character names, but I know every character name for this show where there's nine gay guys and one straight guy faking it.

That's a straight dude!

He's faking it!

You see how he crosses his legs!

And I'm watching along going, I hate this son of a b****. He's not one of us. Honestly, I'd written so many projects, I came up as a writer, I never thought of this business as doing one thing. The idea of just being an actor has never been an interest. It's kind of all the stuff. And in the pandemic, I thought it was all going away. I had talked to an executive at Apple, I had a pilot there, who said there's a chance the whole business model is going to change. This was pre-vaccines. Everyone does singles, actors do their own cover, like crew comes out with two people, they film your single and do it in post. And the true story is, I got off this call. I was with my wife and kids, and I went in the other room and I cried, because I thought, I'm not doing that. I don't care about acting that much. I don't care about stories that much to sit alone with a camera on sticks and then in post-production they finish it. So I always put a couple hours of work in a day, to feel productive. I started rewriting this old idea of Self Reliance during that period of if the business is gone, and the dream is over, this was the movie I wanted to make. Self Reliance by nature is a wild movie. Every 15 minutes the tone is different. It's weird, but it's fun. I want people to watch this with the spirit of fun.

I want to make an announcement right now, I appreciate the Academy calling me and telling me it will be nominated for the Best Picture, but I'm pulling my name and the film out of consideration. So we are doing breaking news. First of all, I want to say, "thank you to the Academy, thank you [for] all their emails."

You think the Academy emails? They fax!

I want to thank the Academy for their faxes, but I'm officially out as of right now. [laughs] I think this movie is a fun ride, kick back and enjoy. So I am taking control of the narrative, but I do want to say, "thank you to the Academy."

I love that concept of Self Reliance being the type of project where, if this is your Hollywood swan song, this is what you'd want to do.

Yes. If you think about your career, if you knew it was all going away in six months, and you had to do one podcast or one story to sum it up, that is probably going to alienate some of these bases, but some are going to really like it. But deep down, there's a selfishness to this business. And the selfishness is, if you as the creator don't love it, then why are you doing it? And as I've gotten older, and the pandemic really hit, I thought of that old-school [Hollywood mantra], "one for them, one for me," right? You do one for the studio and then you get to make your cool black-and-white movie, man. That idea is insane in 2024. All for you. And hopefully there's an audience that likes what you do. So that was my big wake-up call where I was literally working on a movie that I wanted to make with Joe Swanberg that was more of like a love story, a little bit will they, won't they? I knew we could make [it] inexpensive, we could sell it. It could do pretty well at a festival. And then I thought, "what am I doing? I just need to do this one [Self Reliance]." I like a manic feeling. I like tone shifts. I like a movie that I can go on a ride. If you keep digging deeper and deeper, you're right, you can pick it apart. God bless you. But sit back and enjoy the ride. When I was making [Self Reliance], a big goal was for people not to check their phones during it. And so that was a big talk I had with Dan Romer about the score. Ryan Brown, the editor, we'd have a lot of talks like if a moment felt like 25 seconds to fat, trim it. I wanted it right at 90 minutes. Right from the beginning the score starts, things are driving. As soon as you feel like you know the story, just turn it a little bit. Just keep turning it so that people kind of go, alright, what?

In a sense it kind of had an Annie Hall vibe to it in that it was manic and weird and kind of all over the place in a clear way. Like this is just a weird look into someone's head.

So your quote, that I'm going to say out loud so that it gets picked up, Self Reliance is Jake Johnson's Annie Hall. There you go! Thank you, guys. [laughs] But all jokes aside, it is a glimpse inside my head, inside a feeling, a tone. And it felt to me like I wanted to make something that just felt like you went [for] a ride. And sometimes the ride is scary. And sometimes it's funny.

It also felt very Los Angeles. I spent a lot of time in New York, and no place feels like L.A. The people are just weird.

You know, L.A. gets beat up a lot. And one of the things that gets beat up [is when people say] there's no culture. People used to say it's just Beverly Hills, and now they say it's just like a homeless community. And I'm like, it's always been both. It is a really wild mix of human beings together all doing very strange stuff. But to me, this is very much an East L.A. movie. It is. We shot all throughout Highland Park. All the houses were in Altadena. The feeling of being chased, the idea that he makes friends with a homeless guy, and that to me feels like L.A. in the last 10 years. It's like, we are just living amongst people who are without homes in a way that it's not "other than"; we're just all here on the same block.

What impact do you think reality television has had on scripted entertainment and on Hollywood in general?

I think there are certain filmmakers where it's had none, the ones who are still winning big awards. When the movies are three hours long, when they're really beautiful sequences, shot on a gorgeous camera, there's no edits in three-and-a-half minutes, it's just gorgeous filmmaking and it looks like the '70s on steroids and you just think like, "wow, they really nailed it." Reality TV has not influenced what they're doing at all. It has influenced me. So when things get cut-ier and faster, and stories turn quicker, and characters are more manic and the story is at the pace of reality TV, then I think it's been affected, and I am part of the group. I pretended for years I wasn't because it's so much cooler not to be affected by reality TV. It's so much cooler to be like, "if you need me, I'll be in New York at a goddamn play." Because that's the real me because I'm seasoned and I'm sophisticated. I'm not some trash bag, who's in his 40s watching MTV. Unfortunately, I am some trash bag watching MTV. And I don't want to be. I want to do like, "if you need me, motherf*****, I'll be reading Shakespeare because I understand it." Unfortunately, I'm like [when asked], "what are your biggest inspirations for this movie?" I'm like, "well, it's about 11 gay people in a home and one of them is straight. Oh, and Hamlet."

I have a book on my nightstand I've been meaning to read, but The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City have been so good lately, I just don't have the time.

I've got a John Irving book right next to my bed. And I do think, the kids are in bed, the wife is asleep, this is time for me to read. Never. I'm on page four.

I've always thought you should keep a smart book next to your bed just in case you die. That way people will think you were smart.

The only way I'm gonna read that is if the cast from some reality show performs it and they get it done in 20 minutes. And one of them is drunk and one of them is abusive.

And probably spent time in jail.

And if somebody in that cast is not abusive to the others? Boring.

What's the point? Yeah, what's the point?

This has become the worst interview of a filmmaker. Listening to myself I'm like, "Why would I watch this guy's trash? I'll just go watch E!"

Oh no, I guarantee you people are going to want to watch the movie after listening to this.

We did make a beautiful movie. So when I playfully sh** talk the idea of it being reality TV trash, I'm just talking trash on me. Because what I love about the movie is it's gorgeous and it feels like a movie. It does feel like a '70s film at times. It's got that manic new age energy. So I needed to work with a great crew. This truly is a collaboration of so much goddamn talent. I'm doing the press and it's me, me, me. But that's really not what movies are. The truth is the department heads of this movie, they absolutely crushed it. And when you watch the movie, even if you're stoned off your a** and you're not a movie person or you're a reality person, you're gonna see some beauty in a great way.

I need to ask you about the podcast you do with Gareth Reynolds called We're Here to Help, where you give advice. Now personally, as a comic, I've always felt I'm the last person people should come to for advice. Why do you think you're so qualified?

Here's the premise of the show. For years, the funniest people to me have been randoms on the internet. Damon Wayans Jr., for example, who's one of the funniest dudes I know, he and I text still every day since we did Let's Be Cops, [we] are always texting bits. It used to be that we would film videos of ourselves being funny and now we just literally grab a clip of somebody doing a bit and we send it to each other. So the premise of this is it's people in the world who have really funny real situations [happen] to them. It has that sense of reality TV. We screen before to make sure they're not trying to be funny; the problem has to be real to them. One we just did was a woman's husband, who she loves, but he was raised in a family where they all floss in the living room. She's disgusted by it. But when she brings it up to him, for him, he's been doing that his whole life. That's what you do while you watch TV. So what do we do now? And so that's the level of problems we're qualified for. And so that's the gag of it. We are not fake therapists. We're not going deep on people's feelings. We're trying to help. We hope to help is funny. Because that's what you want for your friends. And that's been kind of the gag. But the comedic engine for me are the callers.